tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post114165740403349916..comments2024-03-17T10:11:46.952-04:00Comments on Film Experience Blog: Black SundayNATHANIEL Rhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11597109147678235399noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1142130070464004452006-03-11T21:21:00.000-05:002006-03-11T21:21:00.000-05:00It doesn't belittle the merits of 'Crash' to make ...It doesn't belittle the merits of 'Crash' to make the point that, until March 5th, in the Academy's 78-year history a film with over 25 Best Picture honors (that movie would be 'Brokeback', of course) pre-Oscar night has never lost the Best Picture Academy Award to a film that had won no major Best Picture prizes before suddenly achieving victory at the Oscars.<BR/><BR/> Sure, plently of 'Crash' voters genuinely liked the film, but the idea 'Crash' won only on merit, with no other factors and/or agendas coming into play is a hard, no, make that an <I>impossible</I> pill for people to shallow when looking at the history of the Academy Awards pre-2006. <BR/><BR/>Nathaniel made a keen observation concerning this situation: put 'Crash' in the same position 'Brokeback' was in this year (namely, have 'Crash' picking up 25 Best Picture prizes), then have 'Crash' lose Best Picture to a film which had not challenged it for awards prior to the Oscars. A valid point could certainly be made that factors other than the quality of both films played into the upset win, based on the number of prizes 'Crash' won, and the history of the Oscars. However, somehow when 'Brokeback' is placed in this situation, many poo-poo any notion that unsavory factors could be at work to ANY extent. Of course not every vote for 'Crash' had to do with snubbing 'Brokeback' for political reasons but, as it would be fair and clear-headed to defend 'Crash' if it lost Best Picture to an upstart after racking up countless awards (and with no precedent for this occuring in Oscar history) it is equally suitable for many to take umbrage over the fact 'Brokeback' was suddenly shut out of a Best Picture win after dominating the awards season, and for these observate souls to wonder what issues could have come into play in the 'Crash' win/'Brokeback' loss.Vertigo's Psychohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17701774152300870403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141785609236682802006-03-07T21:40:00.000-05:002006-03-07T21:40:00.000-05:00Did it ever cross your mind that more people liked...Did it ever cross your mind that more people liked Crash than Brokeback? Is that possible? <BR/><BR/>stop belittling a good film like Crash.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141707732719190032006-03-07T00:02:00.000-05:002006-03-07T00:02:00.000-05:00Robert go to InContention. Kris posted a whole big...Robert go to InContention. Kris posted a whole big 2006 thing.Glenn Dunkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05424659636310160482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141701924975658382006-03-06T22:25:00.000-05:002006-03-06T22:25:00.000-05:00But Nathaniel, there are still people saying "if B...But Nathaniel, there are still people saying "if Brokeback was a straight love story, nobody would care" which is the single dumbest point that had been made about the movie.<BR/><BR/>Some people can't seem to grasp why <I>Brokeback</I> is so monumental.<BR/><BR/>And this is from someone who was a very early championer of <I>Crash</I>. I saw it before it was releasedin the states and actually commented that it could be a player for Oscars. I'm still pissed off though.Glenn Dunkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05424659636310160482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141700427758680772006-03-06T22:00:00.000-05:002006-03-06T22:00:00.000-05:00to keith and others who think Brokeback is reactio...to keith and others who think Brokeback is reactionary. how pray tell can the closet be dramatized without showing repressiong and tragedy?<BR/><BR/>the film would have been a lie if it was told in any other way. You can't rewrite history just to have a happy ending.<BR/><BR/>the tragedy IS THE POINT. Until society gets over their homophobia and until gay people get over their internalized homophobia, there will be tragedy and depression.<BR/><BR/>it's not reactionary. it's truth.NATHANIEL Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11597109147678235399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141699576066352162006-03-06T21:46:00.000-05:002006-03-06T21:46:00.000-05:00Robert, I too liked Crash before last night (in my...Robert, I too liked Crash before last night (in my best of it was nominated for several categories) but now I feel like whenever I talk about it I'm gonna have a voice of disdain. I <I>own</I> it on DVD ($5 from Blockbuster, lol) but am I going to be able to watch it without going "YOU caused Brokeback to lose"<BR/><BR/>"Jack said he voted for Brokeback Mountain"<BR/><BR/>That surprises and delights me. The raised eybrows was just... he couldn't believe it either. He kind of stood back as well.Glenn Dunkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05424659636310160482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141699099555226252006-03-06T21:38:00.000-05:002006-03-06T21:38:00.000-05:00The Academy Awards are still in the closet when it...The Academy Awards are still in the closet when it comes to honoring a gay themed film with its Best Picture award, regardless of how many, many awards the film picks up pre-Oscar. Sure, they'll toss a Best Actor, Best Actress, or Best Screenplay award out there every now and then, but as for the big prize, the message is clear: no way baby, not yet. Too bad as, judging the film solely on artistic merit, 'Brokeback' could have been one of Oscar's most worthy Best Picture winners.Vertigo's Psychohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17701774152300870403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141698180255184452006-03-06T21:23:00.000-05:002006-03-06T21:23:00.000-05:00"So, if BBM had won Best Picture, would our lives ..."So, if BBM had won Best Picture, would our lives have changed for the better? Would we have entered a new era of acceptance of gays?"<BR/><BR/>Earning best picture would have helped the film gain some cultural "legitimacy" that would have helped it reach more viewers. Now people who have been sitting on the fence about seeing it or not, have an excuse not to. As to the effect of art on politics, I'll offer an example: Harriet Beecher Stowe's UNCLE TOM'S CABIN. While the term Uncle Tom is now a prejoritive used to describe deferential blacks, when that book came out it almost single-handedly turned public opinion against slavery. Yes, art can help make people's lives better and an Oscar win for BROKEBACK would have helped that film reach more hearts than it has already.<BR/><BR/>You know who I’m starting to feel anger toward? Roger Ebert. He did everything he could to try and shove CRASH in as the winner, including a long essay about how the film was like a modern day Charles Dickens novel.—he did that to justify CRASH’s absurd plot twists, something Dickens’ books also often had. If I had a chance, I’d ask Ebert, who just loves films dealing with race (HOOP DREAMS, EVE’S BAYOU, DO THE RIGHT THING, were all number one on his lists in their years), if he thinks it was really worth it to give the Academy’s homophobes a critical justification to vote against BROKEBACK so yet another film about race (which IS ABSOLUTELY an important topic) could win. Films about race have won best picture before: Driving Miss Daisy, In the Heat of the Night, but never one about homophobia and gay love (no, MIDNIGHT COWBOY doesn’t count,) and Ebert did his best to shove this one in there too, even though its yet another film about race by a white director, and one which spends as much time justifying the feelings of racists as it does denouncing racism. In that way, it’s just as morally confused as was MUNICH about terrorism. Happy Roger?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141697612729763642006-03-06T21:13:00.000-05:002006-03-06T21:13:00.000-05:00k all of u whining over Brokeback Mountain...be qu...k all of u whining over Brokeback Mountain...be quiet. It LOST okay??? get used to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141697361014725272006-03-06T21:09:00.000-05:002006-03-06T21:09:00.000-05:00am I the only gay person in the world who thought ...<I>am I the only gay person in the world who thought BROKEBACK was reactionary in the extreme? I mean, come on. Surely whatever mainstream success it's had is a result of its confirmation of stereotypes the heterosexual orthodoxy holds near and dear: we suffer, we're repressed until it kills us, we eventually die, heartbroken and unfulfilled. It isn't exactly "daring."</I><BR/><BR/>No, you're not the only one; I agree entirely.Keithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413428735864060575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141696298653412272006-03-06T20:51:00.000-05:002006-03-06T20:51:00.000-05:00Shameful. The Academy didn't only forget the 5 bes...Shameful. The Academy didn't only forget the 5 best films of the year (i.e. MATCH POINT, A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE, BROKEN FLOWERS, THE LOST WORLD, KING KONG), but gives the Oscar to the WORST movie among the selected ones!!!Brokeback Mountain is not a masterpiece, but it was BY FAR the best movie out of those 5. <BR/>Luca from ItalyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141695945282718392006-03-06T20:45:00.000-05:002006-03-06T20:45:00.000-05:00So, if BBM had won Best Picture, would our lives h...So, if BBM had won Best Picture, would our lives have changed for the better? Would we have entered a new era of acceptance of gays? "Hey guys! BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN won Best Picture! Let's legalize same-sex marriage! YAY!"<BR/><BR/>All this hand-wringing and crying is for naught. The Oscar is an award and, like all awards, it will be quickly forgotten.<BR/><BR/>Why spend so much time focusing on this loss, when the film has clearly accomplished something positive. While I am not a fan of the film, I am thrilled that it has grossed over $78 million at the box office. That indicates to me that mainstream America is watching this film.<BR/><BR/>BBM has entered the American consciousness. At this point in history, I think that is far more important than whether or not it received the Best Picture Oscar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141695723635896752006-03-06T20:42:00.000-05:002006-03-06T20:42:00.000-05:00For the record, Crash did excellent in terms of bo...For the record, Crash did excellent in terms of box office performance. Word of mouth alone carried it to 55 million dollars. A heated topic and talk of Oscar got Brokeback most of its money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141693483136659342006-03-06T20:04:00.000-05:002006-03-06T20:04:00.000-05:00I’ve been lurking at this site for the last four y...I’ve been lurking at this site for the last four years, feeding my Oscar obsession, and this is the first time I’ve felt compelled to comment, just to show solidarity with all those who believe in rewarding ‘Crash’ over ‘Brokeback Mountain’ the Academy has made a mistake of monumental proportions. Yes the Oscar is “just an award”, HOWEVER it is an award, as Clooney said that will remain synonymous with the winner from here on in. It is also an award that (in my opinion) comes to represent the ‘feeling’ of the time, rather than what film is really the “best of the year” (does anyone truly believe ‘The Greatest Show on Earth’ was the best 1952 had to offer? I think not). When Gentleman’s Agreement won in 1947 Hollywood was seen to be taking a stand against Anti-Semitism, (and although I’m well aware the ‘anonymous’ Munich comment above is intended to make people bite, I feel compelled to point out that this win renders your Anti-Semitism jibe well and truly a moot point) ditto with racism in 1967 with ‘In the Heat of the Night’, and even ‘Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner?’ sharing awards. 2006 was the Academy’s chance to be remembered as ‘taking a stance’ against homophobia. The greater issue is not whether Crash was a better film than Brokeback (…and in my opinion it wasn’t!), but that Brokeback’s loss now gives ammunition to all those far-right, Christian mouthpieces that purport the ridiculous fiction that homosexuality is a sin. The Academy has [insert whichever expletive you prefer here] up royally.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141691224086846402006-03-06T19:27:00.000-05:002006-03-06T19:27:00.000-05:00Hey Nat, hope you are well.I know there are people...Hey Nat, hope you are well.<BR/><BR/>I know there are people who genuinely like Crash, (I am one of them) just as there are people who prefer Brokeback Mountain (I am one of those too). But given the critical response and box office support for Brokeback and the fairly lack lustre critical and box office response to Crash, it is safe to say that the only reason Crash won was because it was identified repeatedly in the media as the only alternative to Brokeback Mountain, so those members of AMPAS who wanted Brokeback to lose, for whatever reason, parked their votes with Crash. It's as simple as that. While many members of AMPAS in good faith were voting for their favorite film, be it Crash, Brokeback, Munich, Capote or Good Night and Good Luck, there was obviously a group of voters simply voting for Crash to make sure Brokeback didn't win. How else to explain away the low ratings and mediocre box office for a movie supposedly widely enough loved to pull off such a grass roots upset. As a result Crash will never be remembered as the best picture of 2005 it will be remembered as the club used to bash Brokeback.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141690454100557112006-03-06T19:14:00.000-05:002006-03-06T19:14:00.000-05:00Hey guys, I figured out why Munich didn't win!...A...Hey guys, I figured out why Munich didn't win!<BR/><BR/>...<BR/><BR/>ANTI-SEMITISMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141689636461685392006-03-06T19:00:00.000-05:002006-03-06T19:00:00.000-05:00When I brought up my theory about the Academy not ...When I brought up my theory about the Academy not wanting to be told what to do, I didn't mean that as the ONLY reason. There were obviously many reasons, as many as there were voters, in a way. Some voted against Brokeback largely out out of homophobia, probibly enough to swing it, considering all the inside LA sources say it was a razor thin margin. (Remember what Tony Curtis said to the NY Post??) Some, however, voted against it, I'm sure, because they don't want to "follow what others do/tell them to do." I'm convinced the reason Scorsese has never won is because too many people have lectured the Academy that they absolutely MUST give him one. One of the biggest bombing jokes last night was the very joke about "Martin Scorses still having 0 Oscars."<BR/><BR/>Still, the longer the day goes on the more upset I become. Here was a chance to stand up against homophobia in America, and the Academy blinked. As Shaun said, there were a lot of homophobes celebrating last night because the "gay movie lost," and to one saying "even racists have their reasons/still no one should be racist." On the Today show this morning, Katie Couric said that her daughter's school had been showing CRASH to their students to teach them about racism, which proves my point. Politically and intellectually, crash is at a grade school level compared to Brokeback Mountain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141689180842136562006-03-06T18:53:00.000-05:002006-03-06T18:53:00.000-05:00NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHY DIDN'T MUNICH WIN BEST P...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHY DIDN'T MUNICH WIN BEST PICTURE! A TRAVESTY!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141687439756594712006-03-06T18:23:00.000-05:002006-03-06T18:23:00.000-05:00CRASH is a tedious, over-explicit train wreck, but...CRASH is a tedious, over-explicit train wreck, but jeez, guys... am I the only gay person in the world who thought BROKEBACK was reactionary in the extreme? I mean, come on. Surely whatever mainstream success it's had is a result of its confirmation of stereotypes the heterosexual orthodoxy holds near and dear: we suffer, we're repressed until it kills us, we eventually die, heartbroken and unfulfilled. It isn't exactly "daring." That said, neither is CRASH. BROKEBACK is fifty times the picture CRASH is, but I'm not crying over any spilt milk because it didn't win. There've been worse Oscar travesties. AMERICAN BEAUTY winning when MAGNOLIA wasn't even nominated is more of an Academy miscarriage, IMHO.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141685621837942012006-03-06T17:53:00.000-05:002006-03-06T17:53:00.000-05:00Beautiful post, Michael. BBM is subversive for the...Beautiful post, Michael. BBM is subversive for the way it turns the romance and the western on theirear, but without ever pointing big arrows saying, "Look at me! Look at me! I'm deconstructing two bedrock genres of cinema in one fell swoop!"<BR/><BR/>It's nice to know that BBM will have the vindication of time and future generations of movie goers on its side.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141684859762800272006-03-06T17:40:00.000-05:002006-03-06T17:40:00.000-05:00Nathaniel:Please accept my commiserations -- I cou...Nathaniel:<BR/><BR/>Please accept my commiserations -- I could only face the day dressed in a black turtleneck, worn under a shearling coat. <BR/><BR/>My wife and I were massively upset as the results rolled in last night -- no BSA for Jake or Michelle, no BA for Heath -- and appalled by the BP snub.<BR/><BR/>Combined with Felicity's loss, Kate branded the whole show an exercise in homophobia (I know PSH was playing a gay man, but still). I'm angry, but willing to be a little less harsh in my judgment. Here goes:<BR/><BR/>Crash is OK, but let's face it, the characters are mostly symbols who deliver speeches. <BR/><BR/>I think for a viewer with a limited frame of reference (e.g. most of the actor's branch; also the retirement-home vote), a movie like Crash -- the brilliant ensemble, the cutting among stories, the bending of narrative -- comes as a revelation. <BR/><BR/>Film junkies -- directors and cinematographers, e.g. -- have seen it all before.<BR/><BR/>Even though its basic technique has been used more effectively several times before -- I'll just mention Short Cuts and Magnolia -- and its basic idea (exploring racism and alienation in LA) was done at least as well in Grand Canyon, Crash seems -- on the surface -- complex and challenging.<BR/><BR/>For me, however, Crash was a finely-crafted and acted Afterschool Special. In a word, pat.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, Brokeback is an American classic with a twist (pun intended). It challenges the mainstream audience to accept the love of Jack and Ennis at face value, and feel the tragedy created by the closet, by intolerance.<BR/><BR/>But the pretty "surfaces" of Brokeback seems less challenging --sweeping western vistas, star-crossed love story told a thousand times before. <BR/><BR/>And I think a plurality of voters went for Crash's self-consciously "arty" surfaces over Brokeback's nods to its two genres.<BR/><BR/>What I can't explain is why Brokeback, with its emotional wallop, connected for the plurality less than Crash, which is a pretty cold piece.<BR/><BR/>The silver lining: mainstream audiences did buy into the film (it made more money than any other movies in the BP 5), and that marks a major moment in our cultural history. <BR/><BR/>No BP snub takes that away. Great art is its own reward. Thanks Ang, and thanks to you, Nathaniel, for championing this film.<BR/><BR/>MichaelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141684717050698162006-03-06T17:38:00.000-05:002006-03-06T17:38:00.000-05:00Black Sunday is such a fitting title, Nathaniel. ...Black Sunday is such a fitting title, Nathaniel. *deep sigh*russtiferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05271056395630272755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141684509485393652006-03-06T17:35:00.000-05:002006-03-06T17:35:00.000-05:00I agree with most on the board the homophobia play...I agree with most on the board the homophobia played a small part, but I agreee more in the aspect that this is a MARKETING win. If BBM had sent of screeners to everyone living within a 25 mile radius of LA then it would have won. Hell ,if King Kong had sent out as many screeners as Crash it would have been up there to!THe fact of the matter is, it hurts. I am grieving as are many others, I am sorry Nathaniel and all in black,robes,underwear today. While I wish you all the best in your grieving process, I hope we can take the messages from Brokeback and Crash to move on from the travesty. From Brokeback: People and society may be homophobic, keep you from what you love/deserve, and tear your heart out, but you must cherish the love that you have even if some homophobic bastards(or a busted car, but we won't even start that argument) take it away from you. And from Crash: Just because people come of as racist/homophobic, we cannot let this stereotypes and assumptions tear us down. We must rise above their ignorance and be the bigger person. Let's put on our invisble cloaks, let's prouldy wear our blood stained t-shirts, and step up from the Academy's enormous blunder. Jack would not want us to wallow, but to smile knowing how he touched us, pun ENTIRELY intened. Even Crashheads realize that this is just strange and confusing, and when we can grieve, and try to understand our confusion, the we will fully be able to appreciate the masterpiece that Brokeback Mountain is.Middle-Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11278787264170850364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141684361673743702006-03-06T17:32:00.000-05:002006-03-06T17:32:00.000-05:00Yeah, I still am not the least bit offended by "Br...Yeah, I still am not the least bit offended by "Brokeback to the Future".<BR/><BR/>But I am offended by the general attitude of "we can just make fun of this movie all we want and not actually give it its props". It reeks of pandering and hypocrisy. Everyone was willing to give lip service to how great Brokeback Mountain is, but then at balloting time, they didn't step up to the plate. It would be like making fun of the holocaust via Schindler's List and then NOT EVEN VOTING FOR IT. Hahaha, those silly Jews. <BR/><BR/>It IS wrong for a film this widely acknowledged and parodied to lose when it was expected to be a shoe-in. It shows people's true colors. Whether they are truly homophobic or, more likely, just didn't respond to it or denied their response to it because they just don't "get it" and it's merits... it's still incredibly disheartening.adam k.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13485604493059621307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1141683273601184952006-03-06T17:14:00.000-05:002006-03-06T17:14:00.000-05:00P.S. --It should be said again - whatever film win...P.S. --<BR/><BR/>It should be said again - whatever film wins the majority of the ACTING branch's votes is going to win. Period. CRASH was the most actor-friendly film. It had the most actors in it - and it appealed most to liberal actor's sensibilities. <BR/><BR/>They also mailed the movie to the entire membership of the SAG. It's not homophobia - its savvy marketing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com