tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post4316086654857619580..comments2024-03-17T10:11:46.952-04:00Comments on Film Experience Blog: Two Million Acres, Baby!NATHANIEL Rhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11597109147678235399noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-1901362941499887852009-01-30T16:03:00.000-05:002009-01-30T16:03:00.000-05:00'Million Dollar Baby' will never be a cursed movie...'Million Dollar Baby' will never be a cursed movie because it is a masterpiece.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-6340249464345048452008-07-21T14:06:00.000-04:002008-07-21T14:06:00.000-04:00Another great entry! And thanks to Goatdog for poi...Another great entry! And thanks to Goatdog for pointing out how the opening scene of Cimarron rips off Tumbleweeds, which I did not know. I neither love nor hate Cimarron, and I have actually watched it through. Once -- and I'm in no rush to see the entire film again. However, I have seen the opening several times, because, despite it ripping off another movie, it's still pretty thrilling. It's unfortunate that a movie that starts out so well is unable to maintain the excitement throughout. Also, it's telling that Oscar, in its fourth year, already has set a precedence for awarding the sweeping epic (I would put Wings in this category alongside Cimarron).Classicfilmboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01278928051994100842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-33103422484162986152008-07-18T07:11:00.000-04:002008-07-18T07:11:00.000-04:00*BANG**BANG*NATHANIEL Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11597109147678235399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-52662525099927006502008-07-18T04:06:00.000-04:002008-07-18T04:06:00.000-04:00Except if you see Stay or The Kite Runner, in whic...Except if you see <I>Stay</I> or <I>The Kite Runner</I>, in which case those take precedence. (Shoot me now, but I actually like <I>Finding Neverland</I>.)tim rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11893294970751318226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-4710623838599365762008-07-17T23:38:00.000-04:002008-07-17T23:38:00.000-04:00@Brian: "Leaving aside Finding Neverland" is a pri...@Brian: "Leaving aside <I>Finding Neverland</I>" is a principle you should always stick to. I practically want to cross-stitch it, frame it, and hang it in my hallway.NicksFlickPickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04607501848596529493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-84319833733733612342008-07-17T17:47:00.000-04:002008-07-17T17:47:00.000-04:00"No comment on M$B. Still too pissed-off about Bee...<I>"No comment on M$B. Still too pissed-off about Beelzebub's Oscar win (when they could have honored Winslet...argh!)"</I><BR/><BR/>You mean Imelda Staunton... ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-78094904657749294382008-07-17T17:38:00.000-04:002008-07-17T17:38:00.000-04:00Eastwood's had my goodwill at the Oscars ever sinc...Eastwood's had my goodwill at the Oscars ever since his <I>Unforgiven</I> prevented the only two Best Picture-winning Westerns from being <I>Cimarron</I> and <I>Dances With Wolves</I>: two ambitious but ultimately misguided and patronizing attempts to bring a social conscience to a genre that has long presented problematic depictions of the settlement of this country by Europeans.<BR/><BR/>Eastwood's film takes a different tack on essentially the same problem, following in the traditions of the best films by Anthony Mann, John Ford and Eastwood's mentor Sergio Leone in demythifying the Old West by pointing to the uncivilized violence of the invading European-Americans. But it arguably goes one further, commenting on how these films are often read as celebrations of the violence they're critiquing. <BR/><BR/>And though <I>Million Dollar Baby</I> is not quite as effective, it's basically doing the same kind of thing for another glamorized genre: the boxing picture. Definitely my pick of the BP nominees from that year. Leaving aside <I>Finding Neverland</I>, which I didn't see.Brian Darrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17693169310367670898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-18642083890644670992008-07-17T15:19:00.000-04:002008-07-17T15:19:00.000-04:00All right, I'll let you know how I felt. I'm a big...All right, I'll let you know how I felt. I'm a big fan of Edna Ferber's work. Giant was a kickass movie and Show Boat ('36) was amazing. <BR/><BR/>But Cimarron is my absolute favorite. It was one of the first westerns I'd ever seen and I got caught up in that land rush in the beginning. For me, it didn't let me down afterwards. I love Irene Dunne, so I'm all eyes and ears when I'm watching one of her movies. Even Richard Dix came off as the perfect choice to be in this movie. I don't think there was a better rugged, earthy guy in 1931. <BR/><BR/>Didn't anyone else like the fact that Irene Dunne's character became an independent woman? This movie was made in a time where fifteen years earlier, she couldn't even vote. And what about the interracial marriage? Ahead of its time in some ways. <BR/><BR/>Where can I start with the ending? I know it was pretty coincidental that the two of them would be so close in geography, but Ilsa walking into Rick's cafe was pretty coincidental too. That ending had me on the verge of tears. When a movie does that, I know it's special. <BR/><BR/>Maybe it's just me, but I had fun with Cimarron. I really enjoyed going back in time and it's one of my favorite westerns.ctrouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03718287190772592226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-88542961229225370022008-07-17T07:36:00.000-04:002008-07-17T07:36:00.000-04:00benji i hear ya. Though I wish I had added a parag...benji i hear ya. Though I wish I had added a paragraph in there about Oscar madness and hoopla sometimes getting in the way of seeing a movie for what it is. It was interesting to watch M$B again and realized what i missed to some degree because it represented so many things I don't like (the late December sneak attack --fresh in the minds with unfair advantage, Hilary Swank, honoring actors because we love the films they're in whilst ignoring actors that are much better in films that aren't quite as loved) etcetera...<BR/><BR/>the Oscar parade got in the way of noticing how good M$B actually is. It's still only my 3rd favorite nominated but seeing it again made me much less angry about the clint best director thing (of course that issue was solved by Scorsese finally winning in 2006 so maybe this point isn't a good one ;) <BR/><BR/>Cal --You're more articulate than you think. I appreciate the clarification.<BR/><BR/>Tim --i loved Out of Africa in the 80s (haven't seen it since) so maybe give it another chance.<BR/><BR/>tim r --you've said it so well. i feel this same way about M$B (hard to shake even if you don't love it at first) and The Aviator (misunderstood and undervalued for what it's trying to do)NATHANIEL Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11597109147678235399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-42580508182662589782008-07-17T06:13:00.000-04:002008-07-17T06:13:00.000-04:00I made it through all of Cimarron a while ago, in ...I made it through all of Cimarron a while ago, in my bid to watch all BP winners (only Cavalcade is still missing, can't get my hand on it). I was particularly put off by its racism (which was common at that time, I guess) and its pretentious "scope".<BR/>One should also note that Cimarron was an expensive flop in its day and sealed the Western's fate as a dead "A"-picture genre until the late 1930s. Which makes its Oscar win even more mysterious...<BR/><BR/>No comment on M$B. Still too pissed-off about Beelzebub's Oscar win (when they could have honored Winslet...argh!)Benjihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17134642331452989996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-76457224272770021562008-07-17T05:57:00.000-04:002008-07-17T05:57:00.000-04:00Since you'll have to see Unforgiven again, I stron...Since you'll have to see Unforgiven again, I strongly suggest you see The Outlaw Josey Wales, A perfect World and Bird, too. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, I don't think you'll be able to. You always have too much projects do deal with. Good luck, and we're reading.<BR/><BR/>- cal rothAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-5060562812401024872008-07-17T05:53:00.000-04:002008-07-17T05:53:00.000-04:00Nat, thank you for replying. You know, I am not a ...Nat, thank you for replying. You know, I am not a writer, and I want to articulate my feelings with more precision, but I just can't. <BR/><BR/>The circular argument, is just not only that what I wrote. It's just, like, some movies require flashness, other need quietness. Clint jost got the right style for his universe, you know. That's what I wanted to say.<BR/><BR/>The way Maggie feels guilty about hitting people and Frankie can't tolerate violence is right in this movie's concept. It's like: even if you don't like it, you have to live with violence. William Munny in Unforgiven couldn't get any violence anymore, but had no way out, or Jimmy in Mystic River, you know. <BR/><BR/>It's a John Ford idea: people always want to go home, have a family, but it is just impossible, because they have those big blood stains on their souls. Regular life is just not for them. Just look at Ethan Edwards and Tom Doniphon in The Searchers and Liberty Vilence. The whole "mature" western thing is about the guilty outcast. Eastwood also shares these concerns, that are so fundamental to understand America.<BR/><BR/>- cal rothAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-72146602654844262342008-07-17T05:43:00.000-04:002008-07-17T05:43:00.000-04:00I have nothing of any remote substance to add to G...I have nothing of any remote substance to add to Goatdog's lovely enumeration of the flaws in <I>Cimarron</I>, other than to mention that it was one of only two Best Picture winners that I couldn't get through without having alcohol handy.<BR/><BR/>(The other was <I>Out of Africa</I>, but I think I was just in a bad mood when I was trying to watch it).Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09491952893581644049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-27853920540045212262008-07-17T05:09:00.000-04:002008-07-17T05:09:00.000-04:00PS. I'm not sure the Hemingway comparison, even th...PS. I'm not sure the Hemingway comparison, even though he's actively courting it, does Eastwood many favours, either. "Some place between Nowhere and Goodbye"... sheesh.tim rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11893294970751318226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-59190866899565457392008-07-17T05:04:00.000-04:002008-07-17T05:04:00.000-04:00Y'all have me wanting to stick Cimarron on my love...Y'all have me wanting to stick <I>Cimarron</I> on my lovefilm queue... about 4678 ranks down, somewhere around <I>The House of the Spirits</I>.<BR/><BR/>I really like a lot of the appraisals of M$B here, which get at the heart of what works in the movie without ignoring its significant flaws -- the florid narration, the sanctified characters, and I could go on. That film is a whole bag of contradictions -- I agree with Nick that its core feeling is intensely sad and despairing, but for me the relationships ARE sentimentalised, way more than anything in <I>The Aviator</I> (which was my pick to win that year, and which I take to be a acute study in isolation and emotional paralysis masquerading as a take-to-the-skies biopic. But maybe it's just me.)<BR/><BR/>I really took against M$B on a first viewing, partly because of my hunch that all the things I <I>don't</I> like in the movie were the factors that made it an Oscar front-runner. I think the script and characterisation, Eastwood aside, are pretty much ridiculous, and even Frankie is burdened with some very clichéd ideas of Catholic guilt and redemption. Those sheepish scenes with the priest bugged me enormously for setting all this up while not really admitting to it up front. But, four years later, I can't shake the damn film off, and it must be something to do with Nick's point about sadness percolating its way into every frame, establishing a much more consistent governing mood than anything the overwrought, overwritten script particularly suggests. That shot of Maggie in the car is my favourite, too, and I think I'll give Swank a bit more credit than most here for making such moments work so well, even when her whole character arc is like <I>Seabiscuit</I> in reverse.tim rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11893294970751318226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-12938425005272001832008-07-17T01:46:00.000-04:002008-07-17T01:46:00.000-04:00yes Sean do share. i'm dying to hear from someone ...yes Sean do share. i'm dying to hear from someone who loves it. Because yeesh... (for me)NATHANIEL Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11597109147678235399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-71371304974020244642008-07-17T01:41:00.000-04:002008-07-17T01:41:00.000-04:00@Sean: I'm sure I'm not the only person who's eage...@Sean: I'm sure I'm not the only person who's eager to hear a longer statement about what blew you away in <I>Cimarron</I>. I'm not being snarky; I really want to know.NicksFlickPickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04607501848596529493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-20674714396003979902008-07-17T01:27:00.000-04:002008-07-17T01:27:00.000-04:00I don't know man. I was blown away when I saw Cima...I don't know man. I was blown away when I saw Cimarron. <BR/><BR/>My Ranking:<BR/><BR/>2004<BR/>1. Ray - A-<BR/>2. Sideways - B+<BR/>3. Million Dollar Baby - B+<BR/>4. Finding Neverland - B<BR/>5. The Aviator - C-<BR/><BR/>1930-31<BR/>1. Cimarron - A+<BR/>2. Skippy - B+<BR/>3. East Lynne - B-<BR/>4. The Front Page - C+<BR/>5. Trader Horn - C+ctrouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03718287190772592226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-27437784694436284512008-07-17T01:15:00.000-04:002008-07-17T01:15:00.000-04:00Cal, a couple of things --- i really appreciate th...Cal, a couple of things --- i really appreciate the clarifications. not really trying to argue so much as discuss. but here goes.<BR/><BR/>"Oh God, I am with Eastwood to death"<BR/><BR/>this is why I have made so many enemies by identifying Clint with our capacity for hero worship. I don't think people can see clearly when they believe someone else to be perfect. and you do and many others do.<BR/><BR/>it's frustrating because I do think he's a good filmmaker but because I take this contrarian stance --i.e. i'm not remotely able to <I>worship</I> his work -- people miss that I think he's talented and they only concentrate on the fact that I'm not willing to genuflect. it makes me crazy.<BR/><BR/>which admittedly is not a good place to be if you want to be discerning about someone's work. so in a way my inability to deal with the way other people deal with Eastwood is just as much of a problem as the mass hero worship. <BR/><BR/>i get that. <BR/><BR/>"everyone who tries to feel and understand Eastwood's career and auteurial vision knows that Maggie is just a McGuffin, and the whole thing is about Frankie."<BR/><BR/>This is an interesting read and I appreciate you saying this. I don't really like the idea that a title character is a mcguffin though. Especially looking at the way the movie fawns on her. seems a bit dishonest... so it might just be a taste thing.<BR/><BR/>"Once again, Eastwood creates a pitch-perfect portrait of a person who is a victim of violence, inflicted by the others and by himself. That's Eastwood is interested in boxing, because people beat each other professionally."<BR/><BR/>thanks for saying this. it is helping me to understand why people see more in this movie than I do. but i wish that he had been less shy about the violence within this milieu... I can never by Maggie as someone willing to beat the shit out of other people for a living because she's just so damn nice. She even feels guilty for hitting people. Abnd she's a BOXER.<BR/><BR/>"His directorial style is not best because is quieter, but because is the best style for this picture, and all his pictures."<BR/><BR/>see this is where I get lost again. it's a circular argument. 'its' the best because its the best....' and it's an argument that doesn't allow that all filmmakers have flaws. all of them (yes even the ones i love the way you love Eastwood)<BR/><BR/>"I am not overrating Eastwood, but his movies, if they were books, could be signed by Hemingway. There is not a single false note in the way he films. It's beyond perfect."<BR/><BR/>i liked the film. I truly did. I edited out a paragraph about how the Oscar race got in my way of appreciating it at the time (on account of the article was getting really long) but this is why the Oscar race got in my way... you've illustrated it well. When i hear people talk this way I just get so defensive and "HOW? HOW CAN ONE PERSON BE DEEMED SO PERFECT???" that my blinders go back on and i miss out on the very real qualities of their work.<BR/><BR/>There <I>are</I> false notes in this movie. They're not hard to spot (i.e. Maggie's DisneyWorld loving family). <BR/><BR/>but again... i like this movie so much more than the article and these discussions convey. But I'm never able to articulate it because I spend so much time going "no uh really?" and I get back to "it's not THAT good" ;) it's a vicious circle for me.NATHANIEL Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11597109147678235399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-45761975742523211872008-07-17T00:32:00.000-04:002008-07-17T00:32:00.000-04:00Thanks, Cal, for huzzah'ing my take on M$B &#1...Thanks, Cal, for huzzah'ing my take on <I>M$B</I> &#151 although, just to play devil's advocate, I would argue that Michel Gondry (at 41), Joshua Marston (at 36), Richard Linklater (at 44), and Julie Bertucelli (also at 36) also made movies in 2004, or at least released Stateside in 2004, that were equally "beautiful, touching, and precise." Gondry proved that even a hipster can do this, but <I>Maria Full of Grace</I>, <I>Before Sunset</I>, and <I>Since Otar Left</I> are just as directly and confidently expressive as the Eastwood. So I wouldn't want to say you "have" to be in your 70s to make a film with those qualities.<BR/><BR/>This isn't to dispute your point that <I>M$B</I> feels like the work of an older person, or that it benefits in intriguing ways from that perspective. One could plausibly have named this movie <I>No Country for Old Men</I>, and I think it speaks more eloquently to that idea than the movie that actually bears that title.NicksFlickPickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04607501848596529493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-38174067208370229612008-07-16T23:41:00.000-04:002008-07-16T23:41:00.000-04:00Anonymous: Are you Armond White? Seriously, you ju...Anonymous: Are you Armond White? Seriously, you just trotted out a perfect "Armond" quote. Also: if you want nihilistic, just look at Eastwood's own High Plains Drifter<BR/><BR/>I Love Clint Eastwood, But this is one of his lesser movies. I actually don't remember much of it, except a vague feeling that the first half was far superior to the second, and that the scene with the parents brings the whole thing to a screeching halt. I do give it a thumbs up however, perhaps because I'm such a fan of Clint. <BR/><BR/>Nathanial:<BR/><BR/>I absolutely agree that we need both striped down and fired up direction styles. We seem to have far too many who say it's an either-or proposition, but I for one want to see all of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-58550346138379110472008-07-16T22:26:00.000-04:002008-07-16T22:26:00.000-04:00What Nick said. MDB is not sentimental. It's dark ...What Nick said. MDB is not sentimental. It's dark and complex, but still very simple. It goes straight to the heart because it never goes the easy way. Only a guy in his 70's can make such a beautiful, touching and precise movie.<BR/><BR/>- cal rothAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-26784514136624220912008-07-16T22:22:00.000-04:002008-07-16T22:22:00.000-04:00Wow, these words I've just posted are kinda confus...Wow, these words I've just posted are kinda confused, but you'll understand anyway, I think.<BR/><BR/>- cal rothAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-17558890895755083062008-07-16T22:21:00.001-04:002008-07-16T22:21:00.001-04:00Oh God, I am with Eastwood to death. You still get...Oh God, I am with Eastwood to death. <BR/><BR/>You still get foold by title character arc, when everyone who tries to feel and understand Eastwood's career and auteurial vision knows that Maggie is just a McGuffin, and the whole thing is about Frankie. <BR/><BR/>Once again, Eastwood creates a pitch-perfect portrait of a person who is a victim of violence, inflicted by the others and by himself. That's Eastwood is interested in boxing, because people beat each other professionally.<BR/><BR/>One more time, we get to see a person who can't live anymore with violence (Frankie can't see his pupils in danger, because he can't get violence any longer) but is so drowned in this universe that can't see a way out. <BR/><BR/>His directorial style is not best because is quieter, but because is the best style for this picture, and all his pictures. His classicism has a rugged quality that is absolutely perfect for these people he likes to film. I am not overrating Eastwood, but his movies, if they were books, could be signed by Hemingway. There is not a single false note in the way he films. It's beyond perfect.<BR/><BR/>I DO LOVE Clint Eastwood. To death.<BR/><BR/>- cal rothAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8256060.post-7500382330296940202008-07-16T22:21:00.000-04:002008-07-16T22:21:00.000-04:00Maybe the prestige accorded to Cimarron had to do ...Maybe the prestige accorded to Cimarron had to do with the source material by Edna Ferber, who was a Pulitzer Prize winner AND popular writer, and had a number of successful adaptions of her writing (the musical "Showboat", "Giant"). Maybe that lent a respectability to the movie, that from your descriptions, it doesn't deserve.<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edna_FerberAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com